Fireside Chat, Interview
80K Actually After Hours: Coming to America with Joel Becker
- Hosts and Guest: The episode features hosts Matt (1:1 team), Bella (outreach), and Arden (web head) from ADK, interviewing special guest Joel Becker, who is preparing to relocate from the UK to the US.
- Joel's Relocation Reasons: Joel describes the move to America as a highly anticipated decision, citing "energy" and "entrepreneurialism" as primary drivers, alongside a preference for American politics which he finds more "plain-faced" compared to the euphemistic style of British politics.
- Political Aesthetics Disagreement: Joel argues that American bluntness is aesthetically superior to British euphemism, even when discussing morally repugnant topics; Bella counters that British euphemisms may indicate a societal awareness that such views are morally abhorrent.
- Perception of Societal Barbarism: Joel challenges the British assumption that the US is uniquely prone to "barbarism," suggesting that historical context regarding the British Empire might explain current US political roughness, whereas UK politics is calmer only due to a restricted electorate.
- Community and Career Shift: Joel plans to return to relationships in Boston, noting a shift from his London circle a decade ago where few friends identified as Effective Altruists (EAs) to the current environment where it is the norm.
- Critical View of 80k CEO Episode: Joel expresses reservations about the 80,000 Hours podcast episode featuring former CEO Howie; he feels the support Howie received (housing, job offers, employer rehire) was unrepresentative of the average listener's situation and could create unrealistic expectations for those with fewer resources.
- FTX Fellowship Reflections: Joel reflects on his time running the FTX Foundation's fellows program in the Bahamas, acknowledging that while the "salon energy" was intellectually exciting at the time, the program is now indefensible in hindsight due to the foundation's collapse via fraud.
- Personal Productivity: Joel admits he was not personally productive during the Bahamas residency, struggling with the office-less environment and COVID, and notes that the experience was not a good use of his time regardless of the foundation's future.
- American vs. UK Cultural Traits: Joel cites a specific anecdote of a subway performer in New York doing parkour and playing a boombox as an example of American "energy," which he views positively despite potential public safety risks, contrasting it with perceived rigidity in the UK.
- Sports System Debate: The group debates professional sports structures; Joel prefers the European soccer model where teams can be relegated and face no salary caps, while Arden defends the American model of redistributive taxation and salary caps to ensure competitive balance.
- Rob Wiblin's Sports Stance: The hosts critique Rob Wiblin's view that sports are net-negative due to zero-sum dynamics and high athlete salaries, arguing that sports provide intrinsic utility and community value that justify the compensation.
- Career Path Decision: Joel explains his decision to leave a PhD in Economics for non-academic roles, citing a desire for geographic flexibility (to stay in the US) and alignment with high-value collaborative projects, despite losing the "Dr." title.
- Asmongold Case Study: The hosts discuss Twitch streamer Asmongold, using his choice to live in filth to focus entirely on his digital life as a validation of "meta-preferences"—the idea that individuals should optimize their lives for the specific experiences they genuinely value, even if socially stigmatized.
- CEO Transition Hesitancy: Arden reveals mixed feelings about applying for the 80,000 Hours CEO role; while the process is routine, he feels ambivalent about leaving his current web team role and fears the new responsibilities might reduce his happiness and sense of efficacy.
- Aphantasia Discussion: Joel discloses he has aphantasia, an inability to visualize imagery or hear internal auditory sounds, noting that this makes distinguishing between imagined sounds and reality difficult and limits his ability to compose music or draw without reference.
- Childhood Creative Impulses: Joel attributes his childhood desire to draw to a romanticized view of art and a feeling of personal talent, whereas his inability to visualize (aphantasia) hindered his ability to draw dragons without reference, a desire he now understands was driven by the universal urge to create.
- Foundational EA Literature: The group discusses core texts for Effective Altruism, with Bella highlighting Joe Carl Smith's On Sincerity as a key argument for taking the reality of others seriously, while others cite Peter Singer, Lizzie M. (scope sensitivity), and Larissa MacFarquhar's Being Good for inspiring actionable altruism.
- Bella's TED Talk: Bella announces an upcoming TED talk in Oxford titled "Crayons," which will focus on overcoming hopelessness and encouraging action through tangible, accessible means of contributing to the world.
- Social Media Promotion: The episode concludes with a promotion for Joel's dog, Mooshu, whose Instagram handle is likely
@mrd_monsieur.