Ben Askren: Wrestling and MMA | Lex Fridman Podcast #242

Jake Paul vs. Tyron Woodley Analysis:

• Askren predicts Tyron Woodley would win 8 out of 10 rematches, citing Woodley's ability to turn up the pace.
• He critiques Jake Paul's corner for encouraging a knockout attempt before the eighth round as a "dumb coaching philosophy."
• Askren notes Paul's striking volume was higher but argues Woodley was more effective and landed significant damage.
• He attributes Woodley's loss to it being his first boxing match, lacking the multi-threat elements (takedowns, kicks) that define MMA.

Ben Askren vs. Jake Paul Fight Analysis:

• Askren admits he was "cracked with an overhand right" and acknowledges he lacked the boxing skill to win, stating, "I'm not very good now."
• He reveals he started training for the fight only a week after hip surgery, having been inactive for three months prior to that.
• Askren confirms he would take the fight again due to the financial impact and the enjoyment of the training process, despite the loss.
• He estimates his chances of beating Jake Paul in a rematch are very low, noting Paul is now a better boxer.
• He would prefer to box a known "sucker" to make the fight fun, rather than facing elite competition again.

Wrestling Career and Dominance:

• Askren is a two-time NCAA Division I National Champion and four-time finalist.
• He went undefeated for 10 years in MMA with a 19-0 record before his loss to Jorge Masvidal via flying knee.
• He lost his last 87 collegiate matches before retiring in 2017.
• Askren believes his peak was in his late 20s, though he argues that skill and strategy can extend competitive viability past athletic prime.
• He refuses to be included in the "top 10 all-time" MMA discussion, stating he "didn't prove it" because he never got a UFC title shot.

Jordan Burroughs Analysis and Matchups:

• Askren describes Jordan Burroughs as having an "inquisitiveness" that allowed him to reinvent his game over 10-12 years, evolving from a double-leg specialist to a master of hand fighting and defensive sequences.
• He claims he could beat Burroughs in Folkstyle wrestling but finds the Freestyle version much harder to solve.
• Askren recounts a hypothetical prediction where Kyle Dake would beat Burroughs in a Folkstyle match, a statement that angered Burroughs.
• He notes Burroughs was never a "pinner," rarely pinning opponents in his college career (approx. 10 pins total).
• Askren recalls a 2018 training session with Burroughs where they discussed technical details for 30-40 minutes before wrestling.
• He predicts Kyle Dake will beat Burroughs significantly more often in their upcoming match due to Dake's performance at the Olympics.

The Masvidal Loss Psychology:

• Askren describes the loss as painful because he felt Masvidal only had "one fucking move" on him, and he would likely win a rematch.
• He attributes his inability to defend against the knee to the unique angle and trajectory Masvidal used, something he had never seen before.
• Askren explains his lack of UFC entry in 2013 was due to a prior confrontation where he called Dana White a liar regarding drug testing.
• He spent years frustrated by his lack of competitive matches, feeling he was denied the opportunity to prove himself against the best.

Training Methodology and Drilling:

• Askren advocates for a heavy emphasis on drilling (repetition) to build unconscious programming and technical proficiency.
• He estimates having performed "hundreds of thousands" of repetitions, often doing 30+ reps a day during his peak.
• He criticizes Jiu-Jitsu for lacking drilling, suggesting that practitioners should spend 80% of their time drilling specific techniques.
• Askren describes his "creative expansion" phase in college where he visualized "stick figures" or "gray people" wrestling in his head to solve tactical problems.
• He compares this mental visualization process to AI reinforcement learning, where systems discover strategies through trial and error.
• He argues that robotics would struggle with wrestling due to the continuous variables of force, speed, and angles, unlike the discrete moves in chess.

Wrestling Industry and Media:

• Askren is frustrated that NBC and the IOC do not provide full access to Olympic or NCAA wrestling footage, often only showing 2-3 minute highlights.
• He notes that "Flow Wrestling" does provide full match archives because they purchase the rights.
• He argues that the "amateurism" rule preventing college athletes from earning money is hypocritical given the profits institutions make.
• He believes Dagestan's success is driven by wrestling being a viable economic "way out" for athletes, similar to talent hotspots in other sports.
• Askren claims America is now competitive with Russia, with a strong team at the 2021 World Championships in Oslo.

Cryptocurrency and Finance:

• Askren entered the cryptocurrency space in 2017 after reading Ron Paul and being attracted to decentralized systems free from government control.
• He cites the utility of Bitcoin for the unbanked and remittance payments (e.g., reducing Western Union fees from 12% to near zero) as key factors.
• He advocates for investors to sell a portion of their Bitcoin profits (e.g., enough to pay off a house) to secure life-changing financial stability.
• He notes "whale" metrics showing long-term holders are still buying during downturns, while short-term holders are selling.
• He predicts the Bitcoin bull market peak may occur within 3-6 months and plans to sell a small portion then.

Future Plans and Challenges:

• Askren proposes a "Gracie Challenge" style event where he challenges wrestlers to a 30-minute pin-only match for a growing cash jackpot.
• He suggests the challenge would be filmed in a private room to focus on the sport rather than the spectacle.
• He believes he could be pinned by a few elite wrestlers (like David Taylor) but would likely pin anyone less elite.
• Askren is skeptical of Eddie Bravo's overtime rules in Jiu-Jitsu, arguing they unfairly reward the loser with a chance to pin rather than rewarding the dominant performance.
• He plans to continue coaching and running wrestling academies, viewing wrestling as a microcosm for life lessons like persistence and work ethic.

Khabib Nurmagomedov and MMA:

• Askren claims he could beat Khabib Nurmagomedov in a pure wrestling match due to his size advantage and technical proficiency.
• He admits Khabib would likely win in an MMA setting due to the variety of tools (striking, submissions) available to him.
• He expresses disappointment that Justin Gaethje's wrestling was perceived as poor in his fight against Khabib.
• He confirms he would be willing to spar or wrestle Khabib if invited.

Personal Philosophy and Mental Game:

• Askren balances a "hate to lose" mentality with a "seek out challenges" drive to reach potential.
• He admits to having anxiety in daily life and social interactions but claims to suppress it during performance.
• He credits a coach with teaching him to distract himself (e.g., talking about fishing) to manage pre-competition anxiety.
• He values emotional maturity in young athletes, citing his own decision at age 11 to quit baseball to focus on wrestling.
• He believes wrestling builds discipline, specifically the habit of showing up on time and working hard, which translates to other life areas.

Crypto and Social Media:

• Askren avoids following high-volume Twitter users like Michael Malice because the content is "too much" for his timeline.
• He considers Twitter a "magical" source of information if used strategically to consume specific accounts rather than a feed.
• He describes GSP as a "root" figure he cannot "roast" out of respect, despite joking about GSP's hair growth.
• He finds it interesting that GSP claims to have fear before fights but apparently does not feel it during competition, suggesting a unique mental mechanism.