If You Could Live Forever Would You? (Ben Goertzel) | AI Podcast Clips with Lex Fridman

Goals and Philosophical Stance on Longevity

• The speaker's primary research goal is to abolish involuntary death, aiming for a future where individuals choose when to die rather than being forced to.
• While preferring "forced immortality" over death if compelled to choose, the speaker notes that immortality with the voluntary option to end life is the more realistic and preferred scenario.
• The speaker predicts that within 50 years, the societal view that death provides meaning to life will be regarded as absurd, comparable to how modern society views the Anabaptists of the year 1000.
• Personal reflection on mortality is acknowledged as a driver for wisdom, but the speaker argues that deep understanding can be achieved through other means without the necessity of approaching death.

Perspectives on Suffering and Pain

• The speaker proposes abolishing pain through neuroscience, arguing that while some romanticize suffering, "overwhelming torture" and self-harm offer no inherent beauty.
• A hypothetical "pain dial" is introduced as a thought experiment to determine if humans would opt to have the ability to regulate pain levels, even if they do not keep it at zero constantly.
• The speaker admits to experiencing significant pain (e.g., from doing 680 daily push-ups and pull-ups) and acknowledges they would immediately turn such pain to zero if given the option.
• The discussion questions whether the human motivational system requires a certain probability of suffering for satisfaction, or if this trait is a biological limitation that disqualifies humans from becoming superior AGI.
• It is hypothesized that non-human AGI systems could be fundamentally healthier and more benevolent because they would not require an analog for feeling pain.
• Human psychology is described as gravitating toward "surprising fulfillment of expectations," suggesting that small degrees of confusion or pain enhance the satisfaction of resolution, a concept observed in music theory and aesthetics.

Defining Meaning and the Path to Transhumanism

• The speaker defines the meaning of life through three core values: joy, growth, and choice.
• These values are argued to be severely limited by current human biology, particularly by the inevitability of aging and death which halts personal growth.
• Transhumanism is presented as the practical method to maximize joy, growth, and choice by moving beyond the human form.
• While the speaker envisions a future potentially beyond matter as we understand it, they also value current social existence, including family, friends, and time spent in nature.
• The speaker asserts that human bodies do not currently maximize the potential for joy, growth, and choice inherent in their configuration.

Scientific Frontiers in Longevity Research

• Current longevity strategies include CRISPR gene editing and stem cell injections, though the speaker notes the technology needs refinement in cell differentiation and growth guidance.
• Aging is linked to the stiffening of the extracellular matrix (proteins between cells), which hinders electrical, mechanical, and biophotonic transmission between organs.
• Christian Schaffmeister of Temple University is developing "spiral ligamers," non-organic polymers designed to algorithmically fold and act as molecular scissors to cut cross-linked proteins like glucosamine in the extracellular matrix.
• The speaker states that the Schaffmeister technology requires several more years of development and is currently lacking funding.
• Proposed solutions to accelerate longevity research include creating a massive, open, privacy-protected database of biological knowledge across humans and model organisms.
• The speaker advocates for the use of machine learning and AGI to analyze this biological data to solve molecular and human biology challenges.

Policy Recommendations and Economic Feasibility

• The speaker calls for regulators to allow individuals to pursue radical self-experiments rather than imposing blanket prohibitions.
• A proposal is made to establish cloud-based platforms for automated experimentation on microorganisms, flies, and mice.
• Drawing parallels to the 2008 financial crisis and the COVID-19 pandemic, the speaker argues the world could afford to allocate $10 trillion toward a holistic bio-AI and bio-simulation infrastructure.
• The speaker criticizes the current siloed nature of longevity research within major corporations and government agencies, noting that vast amounts of personal biological data sit dormant in hospital databases.
• The speaker suggests that redirecting funds similar to those given to banks and insurance companies during crises could fund the massive data integration and AI research required to cure aging.