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Interview, Fireside Chat

Zynga Founder: Consumer Is Not Investible Right Now - Thats Why You Should Build It

  • Predictions and Expectations:

    • Mark Pincus expects that the opportunity to offer a "new internet treasure" or reinvent generic services is "highly likely" due to AI and agents, even though the consumer sector is currently "arguably not investable."
    • Pincus believes that "trillion-dollar consumer services" and companies are yet to be invented, noting that current home screens are "half empty" regarding new digital life stacks.
    • Pincus predicts that the "Consumer Revolution" will actually occur in 2029, based on the Opus 4.5 moment happening in December and the need for a three-order-of-magnitude shift in capabilities.
    • Pincus expects that the cost of inference will see a 10,000x increase, aligning with Jeff Dean's prediction, which will make unlimited AI usage affordable for consumers.
    • Pincus fears that if 90% of enterprises have not received benefit from AI by 2026 or within three to four years, the lack of progress would be concerning and suggest a "skill issue" or fundamental problems.
    • Pincus believes that companies are currently "spending a million dollars a year on tokens" without achieving commensurate output, describing this as "token maxing" where the cost does not yet match the value.
    • Pincus expects that "new" product features often function like the "back of the box" for cereal—they get the trial but may not drive long-term retention.
    • Pincus believes that consumers are not yet at the point where AI is "intelligence on tap" like water, but rather that this state is approaching as costs drop.
  • Timelines and Milestones:

    • Pincus states the Consumer Revolution is positioned for 2029.
    • Pincus identifies the current moment as the "Opus 4.5 and later moment," tracing the shift in AI utility back to December.
    • Pincus notes that the internet boom took "almost a decade" to become widely appreciated, citing Amazon's consistent quarterly growth starting in the fall of 2002.
    • Pincus mentions having started his first company, Freeloader, in 1995.
    • Pincus references a timeframe of two years for the cost of intelligence to drop from $100,000 to $1,000 per unit.
    • Pincus expects to open source his "Gemini live um voice plug-in" "shortly."
    • Pincus anticipates that in two years, the cost of intelligence will drop by orders of magnitude, potentially from $100,000 down to $10,000 and $1,000.
    • Pincus predicts that the "time machine moment" for consumer AI will arrive in a couple of years.
  • Technology and Product Direction:

    • Pincus plans to focus on building consumer products that leverage "AI and agents" to reinvent services like cameras, Uber, and Airbnb.
    • Pincus intends to create an "always on AI intelligence" product where the AI listens to conversations and acts as a "smart other person at the table."
    • Pincus suggests that the future of software development involves LLMs writing the code rather than humans writing code that calls LLMs, a shift that could reduce code volume by 10 to 20 times.
    • Pincus predicts a shift toward "squandering tokens" in R&D, where companies use frontier models freely to build superior products.
    • Pincus believes that the next major innovation will involve "unlimited AI" inside consumer apps, making services that currently cost $1,000 a month free.
    • Pincus hypothesizes that games will eventually be created "pixel by pixel by the AI" while the user watches, driven by the cost reduction in compute.
    • Pincus identifies "zero latency" as a key differentiator for future AI response times that belongs in the "new" category of the Proven Better New framework.
    • Pincus expects that the "prosumer" market, specifically for the 20 million developers, will be a key area for AI investment and consumer-style tactics.
  • Market and Industry Outlook:

    • Pincus believes that 90% of enterprises investing in AI have not yet received any benefit, attributing this to "confounding effects" and a lack of product integration.
    • Pincus observes that investors are currently 180 degrees off from first principles, favoring enterprise over consumer despite the latter's future potential.
    • Pincus states that the consumer market is currently "arguably not investable" but predicts the opportunity is "never been greater."
    • Pincus anticipates that the cost of intelligence will follow a log graph similar to the iPhone, eventually becoming affordable for everyone.
    • Pincus notes that the "abyss" between products is a time for expanding "taste zones" before the next wave of mass market adoption.
    • Pincus believes that the "new meta" will be visible when services are offered with "free unlimited AI" inside them.
  • Company Plans:

    • Pincus plans to "keep building consumer products" despite current market conditions.
    • Pincus indicates he is working backward from a future where compute is free to identify the "primitives" needed for future consumer apps.
    • Pincus describes a "proven better new" framework where a company might start with a proven product, add a "better" feature (e.g., price, speed), and test a "new" feature (e.g., always-on listening) as a hypothesis that might not catch.
  • Financial Guidance:

    • Pincus mentions that some peers are spending $1 million a year on tokens, with Peter Steinberger reportedly spending $1.1 million a month.
    • Pincus predicts that as compute costs drop, the "work of a thousand people" can be done for a similar total cost to current high-end models, effectively increasing efficiency without necessarily increasing spend.
    • Pincus estimates that the cost of intelligence will drop from $100,000 to $10,000 to $1,000 within two years.
  • Risks and Caveats:

    • Pincus warns that 90% of enterprise AI investment is currently failing to deliver benefit, and he might get "a little worried" if this persists beyond three or four years.
    • Pincus cautions that "new" product ideas often fail to catch, and founders should be prepared for "none" of their novel features to succeed.
    • Pincus notes the risk of "token maxing" where companies spend heavily on compute but do not achieve proportional output, resulting in a "skill issue."
    • Pincus fears that the current "cost problem" with AI makes magical experiences unaffordable for the mass market, limiting them to enterprise-level spending of $1,000 a month.
    • Pincus advises founders to prepare for the possibility that they are "wrong" about their specific product variant and to stay dispassionate about their ideas.
    • Pincus observes that the game industry faces a significant cost barrier where "every cent counts" in freemium models, making AI-generated content currently "very expensive."
  • Confidence and Disagreement:

    • Pincus is convinced that the opportunity to reinvent services with AI is "highly likely," stating "it's intelligence on tap" is coming.
    • Pincus disagrees with the industry trend of pivoting consumer products to enterprise simply because they are "more fundable right now."
    • Pincus expresses skepticism regarding the current state of Siri and Amazon's Alexa teams, noting it is "unbelievable" that they have not delivered real LLM experiences despite large teams.
    • Pincus questions whether current enterprise AI adoption is a "skill issue" rather than a technology limitation, especially if the 90% failure rate persists.
    • Pincus suggests that the "fish are running" (success signal) only happens a "couple of times" in a founder's life, implying it is hard to predict and often subjective.
    • Pincus believes that "founder mode" is necessary for every founder, countering the view that it is only for a "very small percentage" of exceptional leaders.