Conference Presentation, Panel, Fireside Chat
Trash or Treasure? Finding Value in Distressed-Debt Investing
Milken InstituteRichard Cantor, Lauren Scottlieb, Chris Piccillo, Brian Reynolds, Steve Shapiro, Lawrence, John McWhorter, Brian Wright, David Freeman, Christopher Coleman, Chris Hayes, Steve Grove, Steve McCurry, David Levinson, David Rockefeller Jr., Meredith Whitby
Panelist Profiles and Fund Strategies
- Laurence Scottlieb (Fundamental Advisors): Manages private equity and hedge fund vehicles focused on total return/value in municipal alternative investing; the firm is eight years old and spans nearly all municipal sectors except stable yield high-grade securities.
- Chris Piccillo (Solus Alternative Asset Management): Serves as CEO/CIO of a distressed-focused firm with over $6 billion in AUM across multiple vehicles, targeting stressed opportunities across the capital structure.
- Brian Reynolds (Chatham Capital): Founder of a fourth-fund vehicle with $1 billion AUM focused on first and second lien leverage lending, primarily for LBOs in the lower middle market.
- Steve Shapiro (Golden Tree): Leads a 15-year-old firm managing $23 billion in corporate credit, high-yield, leveraged loans, and distressed assets across offices in New York and London.
Energy Sector Analysis and Capital Mobilization
- The energy sector represents approximately 15% of the high-yield index, with about 5% of the sector trading at distressed values as of year-end.
- Panelists generally view the energy trade as "too soon" to enter, citing valuations justified by forward oil prices that are too high given the potential for oversupply.
- US rig counts have declined from 2,000 in 2011 to under 700, creating excess production, while future supply depends on volatility in Libya, Russia, Iran, and Iraq.
- Some panelists note better risk-adjusted returns in energy equities compared to debt, as debt is pricing in commodity recoveries that equities do not reflect.
- Capital mobilization for energy distress is active with dedicated funds, but panelists warn that "not all of it's going to work" due to a dearth of large-cap distressed ideas.
- Steve Shapiro's firm currently avoids the oil sector due to skewed supply-demand dynamics, noting the high-yield energy index recently touched 8%.
Alternative Investment Themes and Opportunities
- Municipal Focus: Lawrence Scottlieb identifies affordable housing and needs-based senior care as primary investment targets within the municipal sector, betting on the reframing of community services.
- Telecommunications: Chris Piccillo highlights cellular phone spectrum as a long-term theme, leveraging asset ownership to create value against the high costs of network infrastructure (2G to 4G transitions).
- Regulatory Disruption: Solus identifies opportunities in payday lending (specifically ACE and CNG) where companies have pre-emptively restructured to meet new legislation.
- Business Development Companies (BDCs): Panelists note BDCs are trading under book value (97 vs. 105) due to oil exposure, offering average dividend yields of 9.7%.
- Idiosyncratic Plays: Golden Tree is targeting eclectic, one-off opportunities such as the liquidation of GM units, Puerto Rico assets, and transitioning Yellow Page directories from print to digital.
Puerto Rico Distressed Debt Strategy
- Puerto Rico holds approximately $70 billion in debt across a complex capital structure including GEO bonds, the government development bank, and public corporations.
- The panel generally agrees the situation is "fixable" and supports allowing government-owned corporations to file for Chapter 9, arguing that a cohesive restructuring is superior to the chaos of creditors pursuing individual legal remedies.
- The 2016 Puerto Rico Recovery Act was struck down, creating a vacuum that prevents a unified restructuring rubric, leading to concerns over a chaotic, piecemeal resolution.
- Steve Shapiro's firm specifically likes the Cofina bonds backed by sales tax, distinguishing between wrapped and unwrapped bonds based on recovery potential.
- Panelists warn that PREPA (the electric utility) is not adhering to indentures or rational cost structures, creating a "domino effect" where fixing one area (e.g., power generation) impacts other debt tranches.
- Current pricing is estimated at roughly 50 cents on the dollar, which panelists view as having built-in protection relative to potential recovery scenarios.
- Section 2022 tax incentives are discussed as a mechanism to drive growth, potentially aiding a broader economic turnaround if combined with medical/pharmaceutical reinvestment.
Credit Cycle, Default Risk, and Market Liquidity
- Credit Cycle Positioning: Golden Tree and Chatham Capital believe the market is "deep into the credit cycle," citing underperformance of triple-C credits, increased leverage, and a rise in covenant-light structures.
- Default Rate Forecasts: While some panelists warn of underwriting quality deteriorating toward 2006 levels, others argue cumulative default rates will not reach Lehman crisis levels due to better borrower coverage ratios; they anticipate a rise to 4-5% default rates.
- Opportunity Size: Steve Shapiro projects a "robust distressed opportunity" over the next 12-24 months, specifically in the 75-80 cent range, driven by rising interest rates and credit upgrades.
- Interest Rate Impact: A 3-4% 10-year Treasury rate could force lower-rated borrowers to pay 10-12%, exacerbating free cash flow issues and crowding out marginal companies.
- Liquidity Deterioration: Broker-dealers are committing less capital, leading to wider bid-ask gaps and more violent price moves during volatility.
- Dealer Behavior: Analysis of Federal Reserve data suggests dealers often cut positions during distress rather than providing a cushion, acting as "first out the door" rather than buyers.
- Municipal Liquidity: The municipal market faces similar liquidity constraints due to regulatory capital constraints and a decentralized broker network, though deeply distressed credits have historically never been a liquid market.
- Yield Curve Signals: The panel notes the yield curve is currently positive (approx. 2%), whereas every recession in the last 50 years was preceded by an inverted curve, suggesting a downturn is not immediate but may be 1-2 years away.