Q3-2026: Deutsche Telekom Live-Webcast für Privatanlegende - DEUTSCHE TELEKOM AG

you Good evening and welcome to a new edition of our live webcast for private investors of the German Telekom. My name is Christoph Greitemann from the Investor Relations team and with me is Hannes Wittig, Head of Investor relations. He will answer the questions that you have already asked numerous times on the open question platform, which we have turned on live for. You can find the link below in the video description. The platform is also still open if you still have questions or want to ask questions during the presentation. Do that, we try to answer all questions zu beantworten. In der letzten Woche haben wir die Ergebnisse zum dritten Quartal 2026 vorgestellt und damit auch den Vorschlag für die Dividende, die im nächsten Jahr ausgezahlt wird und den Aktienrückkauf im nächsten Ja,r also einige spannende Themen für unseren Webcast heute and for the questions. The course today is, as always, first a short and compact summary of the results by Hannes Wittig and then we will start answering the questions before I now hand over to Hannes for the summary. Just a short note on the arrest warrant, our statements of course also include statements about the future and they are naturally bound by uncertainty that should be clear to everyone we also do not give any purchase or sales recommendations here but we only want to inform and everyone makes their own decisions and is self-responsible with that hannes i hand over to you for the conversation Thank you, Christoph, and welcome from my side too. Thank you for taking the time. I will briefly summarize the results of the third quarter and also the first nine months of the business year together. It is always good if you can see this a little over several quarters. Our business development is very steady and in this respect the nine-month outlook is also very helpful. So we have basically continued our growth successfully, both in terms of customer growth and financial growth. We have raised the prognosis in the USA and passed it on to the group. We therefore see ourselves therefore also in terms of the goals for 2026 and also the goals that we have postulated in the capital market day 2024 for the period 23 to 27 well positioned and maybe a few short highlights. highlights. We had a record quarter with the glass fiber net new access in Germany with 190,000. We have also returned to broadband customer growth in Germany and with the mobile phone customer unchangeably strong on the road with 282,000 in the quarter. We have made further progress with artificial intelligence. You may remember that at the beginning of the month of October have conducted a special AI-KI investors' day and then further deepened it with some Finfluencers and our board chairman Tim Höttges. And the other good news is that we are very comfortable in the target corridor when it comes to debt. We have then proposed a dividend of 1.10 euros for the year 26, which will then be paid in 27 after approval and a share return of up to 2 billion. In total, this is an shareholding of around 7 billion, which currently corresponds to a return of about 6 percent. The dividend of 1.10 is also due to what you see on the right side, namely the expected development for the result per share of 2020 in 2026, a 10% increase. The dividend is also a 10% rise, so that fits together and next year we want to continue to grow. A short overview Over the first nine months, you can see that all segments contributed to growth. Very strongly T-Mobile, which in total shows 10% organic growth after IFRS. But also the other segments, Germany, Europe, again 4%, so also very good. The T-System with 5% is no longer a worry child for a long time, and if you look to the right at the organic results over the nine months, you can see that we have been able to increase the service sales by 4% in the year so far, and the purified EBITDA by 8%, and by the way, the result per share by 12%. And the networks are still the foundation of our financial and customer-oriented performance. You can see that we are diligently building glass fiber. In the last 12 months, almost 4 million new connections have been added in Germany and Europe, we now have 26.4 accessable households. As already mentioned, we have had a record quarter in Germany with new access to glass fiber with 190,000. That is about 20% more than in the previous year and our network penetration is also growing with it. In Europe it is higher for different reasons and but in germany we are catching up maybe a short remark that we have the best coverage of all networks in europe according to ukla in the mobile network that is of course we are very happy about that so not only in germanya to have the best network but also in this category the best network in all of europe and And just a quick reminder again, our AI Investor Day, we have set out ambitious goals. Of course, you can also look at it all online. Also the summary of the conversation or the conversation with Tim Höttges, which he then had afterwards. But many interesting topics have also been shown. And this screenplay shows again our essential goals. So we are trying to store a saving volume with very specific operational characteristics, but also additional sales and we are also confident that we will achieve this. On the customer side, we are still doing well. In the USA, after the record year of 2025, we have gained slightly fewer postpaid accounts, but still a very decent number. For the entire year, we expect one million. Outside the USA we have slightly increased the number of contract renewal customers. That is pleasant. In the broadband area, as I said, an improved performance and in Germany, with 11,000 new customers, a return to the positive area. In the television sector, we are also doing well. Here, by the way, in Germany the non-connected customers are not counted. that's another 200,000 on top. So that means that we are still growing very strongly in the television business, especially in Germany. On the side of society and the environment, we are also doing well. Here are a few highlights. Our energy consumption is continues to go back, although we consume significantly higher data volumes and we have now also further expanded our services in the field of AI, sovereign AI and cyber security, which is of course a topic of growing importance. I have already mentioned it, we have the forecast for for the purified EBITDA AL and Frikeshlo AL again in 2026, based on the approval of T-Mobile. But we are also on the line in the ex-US business and this year we will not only reach the 15.4 billion EBITD that we intended, but a little more. However, this is due to advantageous exchange rates. So overall good on the road and as I said, we expect growth in the result. So again, two-digit growth and a result of € 2.20 per share. Now I come to the shareholding allowance again. I have already mentioned it. Dividend 1.10. in the next year up to 2 billion. This up to two billion is also, let's say, the first increase that we had in the previous years. And as I said, in total there is a planned shareholding of just under 7 billion. So, I think then we have reached the end of the presentation and have given ourselves a first overview. and now we can get to your questions. Very good, that's exactly what we're doing and we're going to go through the questions now, not question by question, but as the questions overlap or overlap in terms of content, we will summarize them and we will bundle the questions thematically into theme blocks. The first theme block refers to what you had presented at the end, Hannes, and what was also the big novelty, apart from the fact that we are growing in all business segments. This is a continuation of the previous one, but new is the shareholding. There is the first question, will the dividend that will be paid out in 2027, will it be tax-free again? Yes, we assume that and we also assume that this will still be the case in the following year. will be, however, always depends on the actual result development. Okay, that's definitely good news. So, gross for net at the ... ... payment. ... exchange rate and payment. Then there were some questions about the level of the shareholder's remittance. Some asked, isn't that too high? And others asked, is that really everything? Those who asked, Is it too high? For example, one said he welcomes the dividend increase, but also asks himself if a stable dividend would not be better because of the investments that are in the future. Another asked whether it would not better to use it for debt repayment. And those who said, is that also sufficient, were the questions essentially about With the question, this year we said, first two, then again three in addition, that's five. Where are we now in this year and will it be five? And in this respect, the question is, is it too high, is it too low? How do we get to the 1.10 or the 2 billion? Yes, so that alone, these six different questions show that it is a deviation. and of course it is a consideration that takes into account many factors, especially the development of results, but of course also the challenges that we expect in the coming years. Of course, we want to defend our network leadership in the USA. Spectrum auctions will be held in the US next year, we would like to participate in them. This is something that we take into account when we think about whether it could not be even more. In Germany, of course, the glass fiber expansion continues indefinitely, even in the following years. So, in this respect, the investment in the business and the sustainability of our growth is first and foremost. Then, as with spectrum auctions, there is no one for several years, then there is one again. This year there was none in the USA of greater importance. That means this year we have saved money, so to speak, what we will invest next year. But next year it is a large auction that also requires from us that we are well positioned, as far as our financial strength is concerned, and then I come to the point of using the stock return volumes that we have increased for this year. So this year we decided to use a part of the available means for stock especially in situations in which our stock is particularly volatile. We have repeated this this year for various reasons, which we will certainly come to. And we currently have the expectation that we will spend up to 5 billion, will probably spend up to 3.5 billion, depending on the course of the share price. So the idea of additional stock return was to buy a lot at particularly low stock prices. This is also in view of the overall balance sheet. Why don't we spend less? Well, we also have a certain consistency and of course we want our shareholders to participate in our profit development and in the strength of our business. And we believe that with this proposal that we have now made, we are consistent with our inflation policy and that we can afford this inflation. But that it is also flexible enough to accommodate possible imbalances that occur in the next year in the good as well as in the bad. Therefore, you also have the stock return. As I said, this is now the initial increase. And then you can see in the course of the following year whether you spend more or maybe less. you don't necessarily have this flexibility with the dividend, but with the stock return program. And in relation to the debt, what are the considerations there, i.e. issuance or return or debt? Yes, well, of course we have a debt policy or a debt, we have set a debt limit with 2.75 times the purified EBITDA of the company, This is also linked to the profit development of the company. We are currently doing well with around 2.6 times, so significantly below. As I said, we didn't have a larger range of auctions this year either. In this respect, this was a year in which we saved a bit. And of course, with the announcement for the shareholding next year, we will also assume from certain assumptions that debt will still develop relevant next year , be it free cash flow, be it the so-called stock returns or other topics. So in this respect, we hope that this is a comprehensive and smart package in general, which is attractive for our shareholders, but also for our strategic conformity. Then there is a question about the further development of the dividend. What can be said about the development in the next five years and will the question continue to be a dividend every year? Yes, that's the last question. Yes, it is of course our intention that there will be a dividend every year. We have articulated an issuance policy. That is 40 to 60 percent of the clean-up results per share. We have been holding on to this for years now and have consistently 50 percent, sometimes it was 49 or so, sometimes 51. but in principle we have 50% of the clean-up results per share. So in this respect, we have no intention of changing this policy. And as long as the results per shares develop in the right direction, then this policy will come into effect. We have a little bit of play in the policy, i.e. 40 to 60% of clean-ups results, as I said. In other words, in some years, we may not be able to reflect 100% of our expectations for business development in a flexible way, but in general it is a simple formula. At the moment, the analyst consensus is about steady, further two-digit profit growth for us. You know our guidance for 2.50 € next year from 2.20 € this year. In terms of the result per share for the years after 2027, we have not given a forecast. But as I said, there are others who expect further increases and that makes sense. You can also find the analyst consensus on our website. Insofern telekom.com and then in the chapter Investor Relations, there you will find the average of the estimates of the bank analysts, what they expect in the coming years from Telekom regarding the dividend. Then the question about the stock exchange rate. This year it has fluctuated more than is usually the case with telecoms, especially in recent times. What are the causes and how do we react to this? In the last two years, we have indeed had a high volatility with strong prices in both cases in the spring and then unfortunately no longer so strong prices later in the year. I think that was such an interplay between our results development and the reporting on our results, which is typically taken positively, because it is also strong and good. But then there were always external developments that burdened us. In particular, the news about SpaceX and the possible intentions of the company in the field of mobile telecommunications to compete with terrestrial infrastructure. This has also thickened a bit in the last few weeks, this news situation. What we also have in the USA is a concern that the market has slowed down a bit overall, or has sharpened in competition. This has something to do with the change of owner at Verizon, the largest mobile phone provider in the USA. The company has decided to take a more aggressive approach to the market. We have still delivered solid and good numbers, as I just said, despite this additional challenge. But it does cause additional uncertainty if a competitor, who has been acting more reserved in the market so far, now takes an aggressive approach. And in this respect, this is also a topic that has now had a burdensome effect. The Deutsche Telekom stock has this year, because it's not always like that, it can go But the German telecom stock has outperformed the T-Mobile stock this year. You can see that the development in the USA is not always one to one in the good as well as in the bad. But of course, in the end, the stock price development of T-mobile has also burdened the stock market price development of the German Telekom. Was planen wir, um das zu verändern? Ich glaube, es ist ja so, wir sehen die Volatilität. Wir haben dieses Jahr auch schon Kurse von 34 Euro gesehen. Als Unternehmen fahren wir im Wesentlichen gerade aus in der Strategie. Auch erfolgreich. Ich habe es ja eben besprochen. Das heißt, wir müssen das im Runde auf dem Platz beantworten, diese Herausforderung. Und manchmal ist halt die The evidence load is rather against us and sometimes it is with us. At the moment it is rather towards us and then we have to deliver steadily. And as I said, we are not doing that. We are already doing it today in competitive markets with success. I'll show you now, even in this area of Germany, it's not an easy market. And we have now celebrated the tenth year in which we have delivered an organic EBITDA growth every quarter in Germany, so 40 quarters in a row. That's not bad. And as I said, we achieved this in a competitive market environment. So that works with good execution and we will invest in the future. I have just spoken about the spectrum of investments that we have successfully carried out in the past. That is why we have the best spectrum position in the USA and also the best network in Germany anyway and in our European markets as well. But of course you have to defend that and in the area of fixed networks, as just shown, we continue to expand the glass phase. So that means we answer that essentially on the field and not with any voodoo. Yes, 40 quarters are ten years. That means there was Corona, there was the beginning of the Ukraine war and so on. That means despite all the shocks that we have seen in the meantime. Okay, that concludes the theme block. There was another question why the telecom share has sunk. we have also answered that with it. Now we go to the next topic block and that is the topic of strategy. You have now given some keywords for the topics that were relevant for the stock exchange before we go into that, but again the question about the flywheel. That is the basis for our strategy. How confident are we that we have given ourselves the goals for 2026 and which you have also shown in the presentation, that we can really achieve them? Yes, we are very confident. We have also increased our outlook. So in this respect, for 2026 we are confident. We are also confident that we will achieve the goals from the Capital Market Day 2024 for 2027. And yes, so confident. Then the subject of satellites. You mentioned SpaceX and you have already said a lot about it. Can you say again exactly, on the one hand the USA, on the other hand Europe, to what extent do the two differ in relation to this topic and how does Telekom approach this development? What is our answer to that? First of all, of course, it is a relevant development if someone wants to build a fourth mobile network. On the other hand, we have also seen in Germany and also before in the USA that this does not always mean that the world is changing fundamentally. Now we have to do it with Elon Musk, who is of course very ambitious. On the other hand, Elon Musk is also someone who has a lot of balls in the air and of course has to think about where and how he uses his capital best. In this respect, it is a bit difficult to judge this from the outside. It is clear that it is expensive and time-consuming in the USA to build a competitive network. I just said we have the best network. In this respect, the question is also how do we answer that? But we must not only defend our position as a leading network provider, but further strengthen it. And we must of course be absolutely competitive in our services to the customers. I have already said that you can also be very successful in, for example, price-intensive markets, as we do in Germany. So we have to rely on our strengths that we have, on our special opportunities, and we have to use the time we have before there is an additional possible competition. Europe in general is certainly a more difficult boulder than the USA for a possible challenge by Elon Musk. This is due to the fragmentation of the markets and the fact that it is basically It is more difficult to get to the spectrum at the moment, depending on the market, but it is different, one must say. In the USA, of course, the idea is that satellite communication, or it is probably the idea of Elon Musk, that he also has a competitive advantage through satellite communication because there are large areas in the USA there are areas that are not supplied by mobile telecommunications how important that is you can discuss but in europe it is certainly relatively unimportant so the german telecom for example for language communication almost complete surface coverage in germany and for 5g 90 percent surface coverage so we are not population coverage surface coverage there is little situations where you are not reachable and where the satellite brings an added value. But let's say if someone wants to build a network, of course, then he can build a net. It's just a question of whether it really has the chance to be competitive. And of course that's how I would All right, that's on the subject of satellites. Then on the topic of what is still causing speculation over and over again, a possible connection between Telekom and T-Mobile USA. Are there any news about this? No, you know that we, or you know, but you know it, dear listeners, that we don't comment on this topic due to the speculative character of the press release. So there is nothing to announce now and that's why I'm not going to go any further on it. Okay. Accordingly, there is also a question that was asked, what kind of control effects would it have if T-Mobile would go together with Telekom? Then there is a question of whether there is still a connection between, on the one hand, the satellite topic and, on another hand, that of the topic of connection. Or are they independent of each other? So, as I said, this is speculation. In this respect, I would now have to talk about what the speculation is, whether there is a connection in the speculation. If I recall the first Bloomberg report in March, which dealt with this topic, then this report said that this is a topic that has come up over and over again at the Telekom for years. And SpaceX has not been known for that long, at least not in the form that is possibly relevant to our business. So in that respect, I believe that this connection has at least historically not existed. Then we come to the next topic, and that is artificial intelligence. You already mentioned it, there was the Investors' Day on the subject. Tim Höttges took the time to present the essential topics again for us here in Privatanlegenden Call. You also showed them again in the presentation. There is a question, what does that mean for the margin and for the personnel costs? Vodafone has announced that they are reducing their staff and thus saving money. Telefonica Germany has done that. What does that look like for us at Telekom? Well, at Telecom there is actually something new, but nothing new. Everyone who knows the company knows that we have been constantly and socially compatible for three decades now. I would say adapt the employee base to the technical development, which of course goes hand in hand with the return of the staff base. That's the way it is in our industry now, that our industry is releasing efficiency potentials through digitization and we don't expect that this development will change fundamentally. Yes, so we will continue to build up staff in Germany in terms of number of employees. And artificial intelligence is a factor here that helps to do this in an intelligent and positive way for the customer experience. That's what we showed at the analyst day, I think, at the investors' day, where we pointed out again and again how artificial intelligence also offers the opportunity to not just somehow rationalize something bluntly, but to improve the customer experience as well. Then another question about artificial intelligence. at the investors' day we had the broad range of opportunities that artificial intelligence offers for Deutsche Telekom. Here is a question about a possible risk, namely we are partnering with NVIDIA, which was just the expansion of our AI computing center in Munich. Are we in any way dependent on Nvidia or in a special way dependent? Well, of course Nvidia is the supplier for the infrastructure that we use. Not only are we customers of Nvidia, I would say it is a probably globally relevant For Deutsche Telekom, the sales from the AI factory in Munich, which is connected to NVIDIA, are a positive factor. This year, we expect a turnover of around 250 million euros in our ex-US business from AI-related sales this year. But of course, you have to put this in the context that we make a global turnover of over 100 billion euros per year. So that is certainly not a risk factor. Then a question about the follow-up and the change of generation in the board. Now the new technical board has just appeared. The financial board is named, which will then come after the HV main meeting. The question here is, are there any news on the subject of follow-up of the chairman of the board? There are no news. So the contract from Tim Höttges goes until the end of 2028. And we are normally friends of the regulated transition. und da ist dann damit zu rechnen, dass ein Nachfolger oder Nachfolgein zu gebotener Zeit, also im Vorlauf des Abschieds von Tim Höttges benannt wird. In der Vergangenheit war das ein Jahr vorher. Ob das jetzt genau so sein wird, weiß ich nicht, aber wir werden da sicher auf einen geregelten Übergang achten. Then a question about new sales potentials. That was also an issue with artificial intelligence. This question refers to smart glasses, i.e. glasses that are connected to the Internet. What kind of spread do we expect or is that a chance for the Telekom or what is to be said about the topic? Well, basically, of course, this whole ecosystem of devices is a chance for a company that has a strong network and provides digital infrastructures. So it is to be expected that it will become a popular product. Of course, there are certain challenges such as data protection here, where we certainly need good rules. So I think for glasses, a low latency is important, which then also speaks for good network quality. However, it is so that of course in the normal case these glasses are connected via Bluetooth or Wi-Fi or WLAN, not via your own SIM card. But we assume that over time the glasses will also represent independent mobile communication connections and will certainly offer an interesting additional business. But from today's point of view, it is not really serious to answer how big it will be. Yes, interesting is or a comparison are the watches. There are also those who have their own SIM card and those who do not have their own SIM cards. This may help for the assessment. That was the theme block strategy. I'll see if there are any more questions. That is not the case with this topic. Then we come to the next theme block. This is T-Mobile USA. Interestingly, there are no questions about the operative business, but only two questions that refer once to the purchases in the USA with the question what we have done there and what actually brought us there. Well, in the last year we closed the purchase of US Cellular in August. This is a local provider in the USA with less than a billion in EBITDA, but we have taken 1.2 billion in synergies into account and they are being processed at the moment. We have applied the implementation costs with 2.6 billion dollars over two years. The acquisition cost a little over 4 billion, which means that you can So we have to make sure that it is a very good return if you calculate the purchased profit plus the synergies. But we are currently in the implementation, which means that it shows itself first in the beginning in our result. And in the free cash flow, the implementation costs are first of all minimally effective. In the last year, we also installed our two or two glass-fiber joint ventures in the USA. They had already been announced beforehand. Then it takes a while until you can get them started, until they can get started. The operations are there, so the glass-foil companies are already active. Only the shareholder structure has only changed in the last year and thus the relevance for our profits. These companies are at the beginning rather easy to reduce results, but over time create the possibility of glass fiber, because they are simply still in the expansion phase, create for us the opportunity to earn through the further sale of glass-fiber connections. And we earn through our participation in the Glass-Fiber Joint Venture of course also partly from the profits of the Glass Fiber company. So that's a bit of a long run in comparison to UiCellular, but we continue to assume that all three are very lucrative investments. And the EdTech companies that we bought, they were small, but what are they? We don't know that in detail. not so well known in detail, so I can't give things that T-Mobile does not communicate, but let's say that these businesses are running as expected and are also growing in the area of wholesale and other. They are subsidized. Okay, then the second question, which refers to social responsibility in the USA. I'll read the question in advance. Is it true that the that the daughter company T-Mobile US was involved in the construction of the ballroom with a large donation of 5 million euros. And only after a publication by the Washington Post and only after it became known that leaders had participated in the dinner, that it was publicly accepted, this whole process was so bribed and repaid by the central government. Yes, so T-Mobile is an independent listed stock company by US law and meets its decisions in the interest of the shareholders of T-mobile. In the said case, the donation went to the Trust for the National Mall, which, together with the National Park Service, restored historical sights in Washington, D.C. T-Mobile has had no influence on the specific use of the means or structural decisions. I can't say more about it. Okay, good. That was the theme blog T-Mobile USA. Then it goes on to Germany and fiberglass. There were also some questions about that. First of all, let's talk about the framework conditions. Telekom invests billions. How does the board ensure that not only the net coverage is increased, but also an appropriate capital return is achieved? And what specific minimum requirements apply for connection quota, customer acquisition, amortization duration, etc.? First of all, there is a strategic logic that we as Deutsche Telekom want to defend our infrastructure, our infrastructure for an infrastructure in Germany. That means, first of all it is to assume that we want to have the largest fiberglass infrastructure in German with distance. We have an external 25 million homes past, so how do you call that in German? Homes past, in any case, accessable buildings, not buildings, houses, yes, apartments. You can't get out of the Anglicism anymore. In view, 25 million in 2030. After that, it doesn't stop and Germany has 45 million housing units that are basically connectable. That means we will certainly strive to provide two-thirds to three-fourths of the housing units. And within this strategic goal, of course, you have to then decide where to expand, where to not expand, what is the optimal strategy here, what are the areas that are particularly suitable and there are criteria catalogs. What we don't have as Telekom is a minimum connection rate that we require before we go in an area or a concrete minimum amortization duration, so we carry out economic calculations there to prioritise our capital appropriately, but there are no really hard criteria here. There was an additional question and why are DSL connections still being switched on and applied so that the glass fiber expansion does not counteract and damage long-term profitability? Well, in some areas we don't have glass fiber, so in that respect it is close in these to continue to offer DSL in these areas. DSL also has the advantage that it does not require any additional effort so that it can be provided. But of course we have also made glass fiber affordable by providing glass fiber customers with higher speeds for a a comparable price. So in areas where we have both DSL and also glass fiber, we of course force the glass fiber. And I can only confirm that this is a leading strategic goal. And you see, or you just heard me say that I celebrated that we have now reached 190,000 glass fiber new customers in this quarter, a new record number and we don't want to stop there. So we want to increase this number every quarter and in the coming years steadily. So the strategic priority is clear. Okay, I'll look at the clock for about 10 minutes. We have to hurry up a bit so that we can answer all the further questions. One question was about the sub-entrepreneurs and whether we are dealing with them. Yes, we do. and at the investors' day on artificial intelligence, we also showed that we use artificial intelligence to ensure and control the quality of subcontractors. An important topic. We have our own forces, but also many clients. Then, Hannes, there is a question about prepaid and tariffs without volume restrictions. Is the volume limitation still temporary or should not all volume limitations be lifted? Well, I think there are different customer needs. Of course, as Telekom, we are particularly strong on the subject of unlimited and are also forcing it. But there are also customers who have other tariff structures and that is of course our claim to operate them. We are happy about all customers who book an unlimited tariff in any case. This concludes the theme block Germany and we come to the themeblock quarterly results. You presented them, now there were a few detailed questions. Germany, turnover plus 3.9 percent, operative result, i.e. pure EBITDA, percentually less, 1.5 percent. How does that come about? Yes, so in terms of turnover, there were two low margin factors to consider. One is sales in connection with the World Cup and the other is end devices. In terms of sales, we tend to focus more on the valuable service sales. They have grown by 1.9 percent, which is also faster than EBITDA. But with EBITDA, this quarter was a bit slower than usual due to historical costs, timings and so on. For the whole year, we expect EBIT to grow in the direction of 2.5%. And in this respect, we still have a little faster growth in the normal quarter and also for this year a little faster growth with EBITDA than we have with the services. Then a question about Europe. The growth has continued. You said Germany for 40 quarters, uninterrupted growth. In Europe, this is also a very long series of success quarters in which it has grown. Which markets or business fields? This is a collection of nine countries. Who is particularly successful there? Well, let's just say the most beautiful way most markets are strong and successful. who are particularly prominent in this quarter and this year, one must say, is Poland. In the last year it was Hungary, so Greece is a stable performer anyway, so is the Czech Republic. A bit more difficult at the moment is Austria, but in summary, the European performance is very strong and also benefits from the fact that you have a good portfolio here, where someone can also have a little stretch and the others someone who takes over the torch. Then, in addition to Germany, Europe and the USA, we already had another operating segment T-Systems before. There, the order entry is slightly lower than the turnover. Is there anything to say about that? No, we are very satisfied with the order entrance. It is also growing, I would say, tendentially. We expect a higher order entry this year than in the previous year. But it is also so, dass es Geschäfte gibt, die jetzt sich nicht in den Auftragsbüchern niederschlagen, aber durchaus im Umsatz. Insofern, wir haben eine gute Abdeckung der zukünftigen Umsatzentwicklung durch unsere Auftragslage. Dann war eine Frage zu der Entwicklung der Nettofinanzverbindlichkeiten, dass die etwas hoch gegangen sind. Wie kann das sein, wo wir doch einen guten Free Cashflow haben und wie passt das zu unserer Aktionärsvergütung? Das hattest du vorhin ja schon gesagt. Unsere number for the debt is linked to the operational result that is growing. Insofar as this does not contradict, but also to the net or to the debt-related interest increases. There has been a lot done on the market now. What does that mean for Telekom when the interest rates Yes, I would like to say something more about the development of the liabilities, that this was also a function of the exchange rate development in the increase. But of course, many factors play a role. As you rightly said, our debt is above all not absolutely to be considered, but relatively to the result development, which is clearly positive. You have heard that our EBITDA has grown by 7.6% organically year-to-date. We have very balanced refinancing requirements over time, so that we are now affected by the concrete, i.e. by the interest developments, although they are affected, but that in general it is still developing in very manageable order. Well, this also concludes the theme block of the quarter results and I look again at our list of questions, but no additional questions have been Then we come to the last topic block, that was the other questions, there is only one question in it. It is exotic, I would say, and that is the Post Office. Telekom has been supporting the Post office for years with the contributions for our employees who are in there. And this closed health insurance company has 13,000 members and regularly loses them. and the fortune is at 3 billion and the question is, does the Telekom exercise a supervision there and do we have a care duty? So we basically do not express ourselves to concrete business relations with individual insurance companies and we are not really the right contact person for the question. This is not a Telekom institution, we do not have supervision. In this respect, unfortunately, we cannot really help further. Well, that was the list of questions. We are well on time. I ask everyone who was with us now to fill out the short survey, to take the time to do so. hat es Ihnen gefallen? Helfen Ihnen unsere Antworten weiter? Haben Sie Anregungen? Das würde uns sehr interessieren. Und damit bedanke ich mich sehr für Ihre Aufmerksamkeit und Ihr Interesse an der Deutschen Telekom. Der nächste live webcast wird dann im nächsten Jahr sein, zu den Gesamtjahresergebnissen. Ende Februar werden die veröffentlicht und zeitnah danach Then we will be available again for you for questions. Until then, we thank you for your loyalty, if you have been with us before or for interest, if you were with us for the first time, we wish you a good end to the year and look forward to seeing you next year. Thank you very much, goodbye. Thank you. Thank you.